The Return To Innocence

YAY! You want me to transfer/duplicate my comment on my post over here for purposes of discussion? Whatever works for you.

This is a totally fascinating thing.

IDK if I could list mine, since they shift. I guess, thinking about it . . . there's usually someone filling the roles of guardian, comforter, advisor, a practical person . . . and there's whoever I am currently playing (usually 2 characters, 1 for one on one, and 1 for group games). Currently, guardian/advisor is being held by one person quite competently (Baron Leander), as are comfort/practicality (Horatio), but there's some overlap in that Leander can do comfort and practicality, too, though those aren't his primary jobs -- more often, he has to shake me out of something, rather than soothe me, and he's not one for doing things FOR me unless it's 100% necessary. (Losing my shit at the doctor's office? Let him handle the conversation.)

One of my current PCs has the fun job of being my id. He's utterly reprehensible in almost every way, redeemable only by the fact that he loves his sisters and his dad. But man, playing him is cathartic. Nothing like taking the asshole who was trying to abuse your sister, breaking his neck, and stuffing him into a space-station bio-recycler. I have to play someone like that once in a while to let it all out, I just don't want those characters hanging around. O_O

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As someone with full-blown DID since childhood (diagnosed in 2005, when I was 23, after my years spent being sexually abused/assaulted/raped/tortured/etc), I have to admit that I know far more about my own disorder and how my personalities manifest as opposed to what is being called Healthy Multiplicity. At the risk of asking too much, can you explain the difference to me? I mean, if I were to guess, the difference would be that I lose time and knowledge and actually look, act, and talk differently when I enter an alter state, but that doesn't happen with other, more "minor" (for lack of a better word right now, sorry) forms of it (or healthier forms, for coping strategies).

I know that, for instance, when my 13-year-old alter (Carmen) comes out, she's playful, has a higher voice, and actually has a very average blood pressure (whereas mine is very low - 80/55, typically). She holds her head in different ways, cries over everything, and wants to cuddle stuffed cats. She talks about sports that I don't even follow. She named herself, and I don't even know where the name came from. So there is an entirely different being in my fragmented brain who exists to protect me - who is triggered into that moment and who serves me well, even though I lose extreme amounts of time when this occurs. I also have an alter who steps forth (Ruby) during altercations and very serious conversations (she even carried on an affair without my knowledge), another who robs liquor stores and smokes (Johnny), another who knows fluent sign language (Alex - and I don't know a sign to save my soul), another who sleeps under tables and cries (Pandora), and so forth. I didn't name anyone - they all came "fully formed," for lack of a better way to put it.

With Healthy Multiplicity, however, I'm assuming that doesn't occur? There is no complete "taking over" of the body and mind with no memory? The only way I really know Carmen exists, for instance, is via video and my docs (I lived in a trauma unit for a while to try to sort some of this out). I'm not completely co-conscious yet, and no one wants to integrate. So I'm really intrigued by the differences - since one (DID) seems like a mental illness born from need and trauma and the other (Healthy Multiplicity) seems like a coping strategy born out of need, but not necessarily severe trauma (and isn't necessarily an illness - hence the terminology). Am I right or incorrect? I don't want to offend, but I want to know the difference, since a LOT of people I know think that my DID is "cool," and informing them otherwise has done me little good - so few have started to claim that they have DID or other "people living inside them." That gets old. Who wants to lose time due to being triggered by a bad memory, and then acting out in ways one cannot remember? Who pretends to have these problems when they don't exist? That's why I'm curious about the differences.

Thanks. :)

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You are correct, Mandi. I, at least, do not lose time, do not get taken over, and retain my memories of interacting with them. Naamah will be able to explain her experiences, but for me, these girls are literally just psychic guides, manifestations. They do have their own personalities, lives, stories.

"...a coping strategy born out of need, but not necessarily severe trauma (and isn't necessarily an illness - hence the terminology)."

YES. That is correct. That is precisely what it means for me, at least. As far as people living inside me, I honestly don't see my guides exactly like that. I mean, they exist in my mind at all times, and I can actually sense them, feel them, acknowledge them, even communicate with them... but it feels almost like communicating with bits of myself that broke off and became "alive" (in a sense) to help me handle and cope with my disabilities and the stress that comes with it all.

I hope this makes sense.

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I think I see where you are coming from, for the most part. So yours were created by YOU for coping, whereas mine were created by ME due to trauma and because, as a young child, I had no other way to know HOW to cope - would that be a brief, accurate statement that you think is applicable?

When my disabilities get the best of me (a lot, hah), Madeleine or Ruby or Shilo come out to handle it. I can get through an entire flare thanks to how they handle it. So mine do come out when an issue, health-wise, is prevalent, but mostly, they have to be triggered - and the triggers can be as simple as someone saying a specific word or me seeing a specific picture or color. I think that may be the separate between what you're talking about and what I'm talking about, perhaps?

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I think that may be the separate, yeah. I don't get triggered (seizures and pain flares don't really count, I don't think). And nobody takes over; I still feel symptoms very intensely. Also, they won't come out unless I go in - I need to actively go inside my mind and seek them out. The exceptions are seizures, when Alicia automatically finds me, helps me through, then hands me off to Serena, who helps me.

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That's probably the difference - the trauma-based trigger. A word won't bring out a state you use during a seizure, for instance, but it WILL bring out Johnny for me. Serena would not take a hammer to your wrists to punish you, but Ruby would do that to me. You can still feel, whereas I am unaware (to an extent - Ruby is always, always with me. As much harm as she has caused, she has also protected me in ways no one else ever could). You go to them - I depart from myself, watch myself "go away," and am someone else.

I do think I get it. But like anything - like I will never understand CP fully because I don't live it like you do, just as you will never understand MS fully because you don't live it like I do (but we can still relate and share stories and be there for one another, and there are SOME similarities) - we have very different circumstances which cause our lives to be complicated by myriad factors. And dear gods, that was a long sentence. :)

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Ask away! I might have questions, too, since . . . I . . . just have questions. If that's okay. (Disclaimer: respectful comments that DO NOT come from a place of denying that such a thing exists and happens, lord no, just questions about how it works for you, and things I've never understood how . . . hmm . . . about how the mind sorts things out for itself, in relation to its own condition. When it's such a different thing, the not voluntary thing actual obvious full-blown DID thing. Questions about how it looks from the inside I guess?)

I am not sure how to answer, but I'll do my best! Feel free to ask for clarification.

There is this here. Just left that comment, which goes into it a little.

I mean, if I were to guess, the difference would be that I lose time and knowledge and actually look, act, and talk differently when I enter an alter state, but that doesn't happen with other, more "minor" (for lack of a better word right now, sorry) forms of it (or healthier forms, for coping strategies).

With Healthy Multiplicity, however, I'm assuming that doesn't occur? There is no complete "taking over" of the body and mind with no memory?

No, exactly. Or, rather, yes? Geh. I'm always aware, and I always know what they're doing. I've never lost time, or been triggered into switching, and don't think I could be at this point, because letting them "drive" is a deliberate act that actually takes effort to sustain in the face of outer difficulty. (When not under duress, just going about my daily business, it takes no effort to just inhabit their headspace; it's a way of taking the pressure off of everyday things that might otherwise weigh me down.) They exist largely as inner companions whose thoughts and feelings I am aware of, and as . . . better states of mind to be in? Very close to imaginary friends crossed with the people you'd pretend you were, when you were a kid. If you did that kind of thing, which not all kids do. Under duress, I listen to what they have to say, rather than turn over the wheel. Under rare circumstances, very rare, I may need to basically put on the suit and say "I am failing at cope, I need to switch strategies. I should try Soandso, because zie is good at this thing; dude, get out here."

I don't leash them too tightly, so they say things sometimes, and sometimes I am not really expecting it, so some pretty weird/funny shit can slip past. I know for a fact my friends CAN sometimes tell who it is when someone pokes their nose out and says something. Even with characters they've never met in other contexts (reading the writing the character is from; were part of that roleplaying group), they've heard enough about them to go, oh, I know who THAT is. So I sound different sometimes. I can't say whether I carry myself differently or look different, though they all have preferences for what they like to wear, etc., so those things do telegraph "I'm having a very Horatio day" or "try not to be a dick, Shara's in the house today and she has no fucks to give."

But that's really different, I think, from what you're talking about. I spend a lot of time AS these people in a roleplaying context or writing context, developing them as distinctive characters. So, yes, they will sound and act different, since they are made to be that way on purpose. You're talking about something that spontaneously happened without your conscious cooperation, that seem to have come from nowhere, suddenly, and which can then assert some degree of control over your actual consciousness (or to which your consciousness will yield? I am not sure how that must feel), and I've never experienced anything like that.

Minor? Healthier? IDK. Neither term bothers me. Certainly it's different, though there are obvious similarities.

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I'm going to reply to each post in order so that things make sense in my brain. :) It's been a long day - my husband had to have dental surgery, so I've been a caretaker all day long. But he's doing fine!

Anyhow. If you have questions, definitely feel free to ask them. I think awareness is always key, especially when trying to bring different illnesses/strategies to light. And trust me, it is VERY hard to offend me. I'm only offended when mocked outright, or when people claim to have something they don't for attention (for instance, I can't have a rational conversation ABOUT DID with a guy who claims he has DID, though there's no signs, symptoms, treatment, or actual clinical diagnosis. He just wanted to sound "different." And that's offensive). So feel free to ask! It's all odd, in its own way. The mind is a fucked-up, fascinating place. I'm always, in a way, outside looking in. There's a plate of glass between ME - Mandi, the person who is typing - and the world, which is depersonalization. I find myself attached to music and movies and novels in order to find a life raft, in a sense. I need some sort of grounding to make my life feel real. And I often DON'T think I exist - how do I know I'm not another personality? In reality, aren't I, if there are 11 of me?

I do think I get what you and Jo are saying. I know it's different, but along a similar thread. The big difference, to me, seems to be awareness. I can be my 17-year-old alter for two days and not recall a single thing (what she's eaten, with whom she spoke, etc). But there are moments when Ruby, another personality, can come into my head and "guide" me. She can still fully come forth, leaving me behind in a way, but every so often, I can be both and keep time.

I'm glad you don't lose time, because that's the hardest part. But is it weird to know these personalities have been created in your mind, and that they take the pressure off everyday life? Did you actually create them, or were they just discovered, or there? I'm happy they aren't trauma-based, but more "I need to cope, and here they are."

I was my own imaginary friend as a kid, haha. But what was odd, in my case, is that I could change voice, facial expression, or behavior. My parents never understood it, and just assumed I was creative, when in fact, I needed serious psychological help. But in your case, I can see how these guides are like imaginary friends, and how, when you need to cope, they can lead you down the right path (if I explained that correctly?).

The "they say things sometimes, and I am not expecting it" part is something we share. If someone - I'm going to type the word and then look away - says the word or phrase "fix," as in, "I can fix you," Ruby will come out and rip them a new ass. It's instant, which is why I cannot even look at the words. I have no control over that. But there are funny moments, like when 13-year-old Carmen is at Petsmart and sees kittens. I go in as me, and come out as Carmen for a moment, wanting to take all the kittens home. :)

As a writer, this gets complicated. Ruby wrote a novel that features herself and an affair she/we had. It's very hard to read because I know it happened, but didn't know all the details. But Ruby existed before the novel. It sounds like, with you (and maybe Jo), you had people created, and THEN they started to act as guides in your headspace? And the clothing thing is similar, too. Shilo has to wear a black wig (I have tons of wigs from my chemo days). Madeleine likes to dress in a very feminine way. Ruby will whore it out to whoever - male, female, etc - might look. They don't roleplay - they just are. I can't make them roleplay because my brain has absolutely split and said, "These are real people. They protect you from triggers. Good luck, asshole." It is spontaneous, too, so there is another slight difference there. I often feel like Henry Jekyll - I have no control over the person who may come out, depending on the situation or trigger.

I didn't know if "minor" or "healthier" were good terms to use. I wouldn't saddle anyone with DID to save my life, so I was trying to be nice, but not dismiss multiplicity in any form. There are similarities, definitely, but also some massive differences.

TBC...

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"...you had people created, and THEN they started to act as guides in your headspace?"

That is actually right for me, yeah. Even if I didn't realize how or why I created them...

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So in a way - and this is NOT meant as an insult, but a legitimate question - you created a "character," and then, when needed, she took over and became a guide for you, right? So she was created by your imagination, tucked away, and then actually became "real" to you when your need was there?

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Yes. That's it. I'll explain in better detail in the morning, but you nailed it. :)

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More in the morning from me too, hopefully, but yes, that's it for me as well in most cases.

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This really is incredibly fun. No matter what we say or ask, nobody will get offended, we shall learn many things, and it will all be awesome to share.

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See, when I was a teenager, I created a story character named Sarah, and then one named Dana (X-Files fan), and they were so intense in my writerbrain that they literally spoke to me during storywriting. Evantually, they disappeared, or merged, or became something else. A version of Dana stuck around and became the Dana Ryan of my novel "Stormfall" which I've been working on since college.

When I was between six and eleven, I developed clinical depression and anxiety, and the best way to cope was through writing and creating characters. Sarah was there first, because as a toddler, I had a best friend named Sarah. My mind fully created a character named Sarah who was her own character. At the same time I started obsessing over world mythology, especially Greek and Egyptian. The first deity I encountered was Bastet and then Isis, and then Persephone, and then Artemis. But I distinguished easily between those deities and my creative characters.
I knew that these "people" in my head were, to put it bluntly, not real in the sense that they did not occupy my own reality. Did they exist in a separate dimension? Did I pull them out of another reality into my brain as I needed them? I don't know.
But I knew that they were NOT a sign of a mental disorder like DID at all. They were... more than imaginary friends. They never left my mind except to be in stories.
When I was later diagnosed with other issues like chronic pain and seizures and such, I wound up subconsciously applying characters to help me cope.

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So, in a way, yes - you created a character, and then, when you developed anxiety and depression, you applied that character (and a few others) to your life to help you cope, and they became guides to assist you through painful times (especially with your chronic pain now). I definitely know the distinction between deities and a connection to them and creative characters, so no worries there!

I think it's good - healthy - to know that these people are not real (as in, not a fractured part of your brain due to trauma, like DID), but to experience them as real when they need to be. YOU aren't them, but THEY are part of YOU. That's at least what it sounds like, which seems generally "normal" to me (as far as any of this, or us, can be normal. And I mean that as a compliment). ♥

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You're definitely getting it quite well! Thank you!

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cont'd because I evidently cannot STFU

The only way I really know Carmen exists, for instance, is via video and my docs (I lived in a trauma unit for a while to try to sort some of this out).

A) I hope that wasn't too scary, because it sounds like it really could have been SUPER-scary. :(

B) Forgive me, this is fascinating.

So I'm really intrigued by the differences - since one (DID) seems like a mental illness born from need and trauma and the other (Healthy Multiplicity) seems like a coping strategy born out of need, but not necessarily severe trauma (and isn't necessarily an illness - hence the terminology). Am I right or incorrect?

That sounds about right, yes. And it's weird and awkward and sometimes strikes me as unfair and unfortunate and not cool that I am basically replicating ON PURPOSE a thing that is sometimes A Real Fucking PROBLEM for people. And I don't even know if I could categorize what I have going on as any sort of proper multiplicity, when it's so firmly rooted in . . . well . . . "I KNOW this isn't real, but acting as though it were is helpful, sometimes. And sometimes that acting is very, very close to real."

But it IS a coping strategy, one that works, and as time has gone on and I've made no effort to curb it and every effort to encourage it to keep developing in a helpful direction, it's become more complicated, stranger, and . . . much harder to quantify. They get lonely, and I feel it. I can argue with them. We can disagree. I actually really, really upset the Baron a couple of weeks ago when we were arguing (this happens in the car on the way home from therapy every damn week, almost always in a loving and playful way) and I said something utterly thoughtless, and he was still mad about it two days later. And that was weird, because genuine hurt feelings had never happened before. It wasn't as bad as if the same thing had happened with an IRL friend, not even close, but it wasn't like other interactions of the kind I've had, either.

The more I encourage it to grow and develop its own internal logic, the stronger a structure I have to support me when shit gives out on me. And at some point, I'm concerned that it will cross over into something I'm not comfortable with, or that would be bad for me. Right now, though, it's useful, and I need it.

I don't want to offend, but I want to know the difference, since a LOT of people I know think that my DID is "cool," and informing them otherwise has done me little good

. . . . Why don't we make those people go sit with the people who say that my being bipolar is awesome because it's made me creative, and then we can just ignore them? *squinty look of disdain*

- so few have started to claim that they have DID or other "people living inside them." That gets old.

I can only imagine. Jesus. WTF. PEOPLE.

Who wants to lose time due to being triggered by a bad memory, and then acting out in ways one cannot remember? Who pretends to have these problems when they don't exist?

Yeesh. I have no idea who would want that. Certainly not me. That's rough.

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Part II, because no worries, I can't shut the fuck up ever.

It was very scary and VERY odd to 1)see these personalities the way other people must (since a few have been recorded - my husband has recorded events a few times, and we have pictures. I am actually Shilo in my user pic, so that's ME, but not me as ME), and 2)live in a trauma unit where 20 people from all over the country have DID and C-PTSD. A lot of awful shit went down, and it was triggering. But good came out of it, too. I'm still not completely co-conscious, but at least I understand the hows and whys pretty well. The worst parts were always when a personality would come out, not understand where he or she was, and would lash out. Then I/we'd be sedated and thrown in a padded room. Not a good way to wake up in the morning...

And it's okay if it's fascinating. It sometimes fascinates me, because I GET it, but it's still so - new. This has been my whole life, but piecing it together is a really interesting project. It's an outline of my life - but not my life. I'm 31 now, and have technically had DID since I was 2 (despite the diagnosis at 23 - for years and years, I was thought to have bipolar II or schizophrenia, but then, a doctor actually did his job - imagine - and everything started to add up), so I have a lot to try to put together.

It does seem like DID stems from trauma and illness and so forth (as I mentioned, I was brutally raped - by my birth father as a child, and then several times by different men as a teenager. I was also beaten, neglected, emotionally manipulated, and gaslighted), but Healthy Multiplicity is a good strategy and isn't an illness, per se. I mean, I wouldn't wish DID on my worst enemy (okay, maybe on a few people, ha...), but multiplicity seems like a "good" way to cope. It doesn't seem as "take-over no matter what" as DID does, which makes it healthy, which definitely is the key word here. DID is hiding, in a sense, because my two-year-old brain learned to hide to escape trauma. Multiplicity, in the sense you describe it, seems like a way to say, "I may need a little help here, so these are my guides, and they make everything better." It's not hiding as much as sharing, maybe? And yeah, I have a Real Fucking Problem, but so do most of us. I don't bitch about it too often (though I do mean to journal tonight...), but it's a daily thing for me. The memories come back in horrid flashes, but find me someone who hasn't had at least one bad thing happen to them, right?

I'm a trained opera singer, so I know acting. And acting helps. But I'm not sure multiplicity = acting. I mean, I've been able to have other personalities sing roles for me if THEY wanted to, but I'd say Healthy Multiplicity is more coping than "pretending." I don't see it as pretending, I guess. And I know I couldn't act my way into DID if the fucking Academy asked me to.

You can argue with them? That's intriguing to me, because it's very DID-like in THAT regard. I can argue with Ruby. I'll often find notes from her to me, and write her back, and we go on and on. But it's not in my head as much as it is on paper. When she's in my head, she's either 1)watching, or 2)taking over completely. But that does seem like a bit of a similarity - again, minus the time loss bit.

But I'm not sure that multiplicity is a BAD thing if it helps you cope. Is it healthy? I mean, I don't know. If you succumb to it completely and aren't YOU, then yeah, bad thing. If you can't be logical as YOU, you've crossed into a pretty "hard to get out of" territory. Do you see a psych? Does that ever come up?

Ahh, illness fakers. My favorite people. I love when people are "sick" because it gives them attention, or makes them seem cool, or xyz excuse. People like that disgust me. Don't fake or compare. Just - exist with what you have. Figure it out. Don't be a dick. Why people want to fake bipolar or DID is so utterly disgusting. And I can spot them from a mile away. Though I do have some internal help with that...

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It is more coping than pretending in the cases where I have to apply it to do what husband and I call CWS. Cope With Shit. It stems from pretending, but it was so powerfully protective that I started doing it harder, stuffing more and more of my "real" self under that blanket whenever pushed into that reaction. And I can still see myself doing it. I have a feeling I don't know how to deal with? Well, what alter ego/character do I have lying around who has dealt with something like it? Switch to that channel, process the feeling AS the imaginary person ABOUT the imaginary event. And, remarkably, that processes the REAL feeling. It may not resolve the feelings around actual bad events -- fights with friends, losing a pet; those are specific real-world things, and pretending might remove some of the immediate feelings for a while, but they will come back and the time is better spent actually processing the real thing as the real me. But I'm mentally ill, and I have a lot of feelings that don't come from any real world source. Depression, anxiety, they come from nowhere. They will CHOOSE a thing to latch onto, but that's a different feeling, and I've learned to recognize it. And the just letting go and becoming someone else for a bit is pretty effective at offsetting that. Anxiety about real things, like medical issues, interpersonal issues, and the like, those I tend to deal with by talking TO my imaginary people. And those conversations are very, very real, in that they will often say things that I don't think I, as me, would ever have thought to say, or been willing to say even if I had. And it's often really uncomfortable. :/

It's all a very weird arrangement, and it undeniably works fairly well, it seems healthy to me.

I see a psych, but it's free health care and you get what you pay for. There's no discussion of issues. It's basically "How do you feel? Need refills? Here. Get out of my office. NEXT." I'd hoped for more, but . . . no. My therapist is good, at least.

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LAST ONE I SWEAR TO GOD

That's why I'm curious about the differences.

Exactly, I totally see that.

A post or two back in my journal, in the one about NIMH dropping the DSM for its research, I talk briefly about different conditions being mistaken for the same thing because the symptoms are the same, and also a tiny tiny bit about how some things that are healthy are pathologized because they are taken out of context, and when taken out of context, they look bad. Like BAD symptoms.

And I wonder how that applies here, to what you have, and to what I've had to come up with to cope with crap, in that there are decided similarities, and other people have described things that indicate that there is seemingly a continuum for multiplicity that encompasses healthy groups living and cooperating together, and also stuff that is relatively uncontrolled, or . . . violent. Not in the sense of the person becoming violent, but in the sense of it just being a thing that causes sudden and serious disruptions.

And I wonder where what I do fits on that continuum or if it even does. It's almost like . . . I can't explain. It's a complicated mental construct that I have allowed and encouraged to take on certain aspects of a real thing. OTOH, it's something I have done in SOME form for as long as I can remember.

It all interests me tremendously, and not in a gross zoo-animal way, but in a way that . . . it's like looking at a behavior that can be either maladaptive and negative, or positive and good, or any number of things in between, and trying to understand all of it as part of a whole, or even understand IF it is. To see how varied it is, how fascinatingly diverse, how each example of it is completely unique, with its own details and boundaries and edges. To see the amazing things the human mind can do, and the scary things it can do, and to see that I fit in around the edges of this thing in some way. To see that I have friends, quite a few, who fit into it for sure. (And, so, seeing that it is in my best -- and most humane -- interests to understand it more than I do. To which end, I've been desperately wanting to look up books about it that AREN'T dismissive crap OR sensationalistic BS, but are actual discussions of DID as a thing that happens for real, that has been misconstrued and misunderstood. And not knowing where the hell to start with that, because Jesus, the potential for grossness, creepiness, and assholery is strong.)

Gergh. Stopping for now because I need a nap and to get some work done, but by all means, ask questions and continue the conversation in any way you like. I'm super-hard to offend (I think our hostess would back me up on that) and I try to be helpful and non-offensive in return.

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You are SO HARD to offend (gods know people in your posts have TRIED OH MY GODS).

And yeah, all of this is EXACTLY why I made this whole entry here. So people could come together and ask questions and answer questions and say "Is this correct? Is this okay? Is this weird? I don't know if I can ever understand but I think I get it enough to relate." I'm glad you and Mandi are here like this, because this is the first time I've had someone with DID and someone with MH chatting and figuring stuff out and comparing and not-comparing and all.

Like Mandi was saying, she will never really get CP and I will never really get MS, but we can at least share stories, share anecdotes, like Dude my nerves and muscles fucking hate me right now argh...

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My final reply. I swear. But seriously, feel free to reply with questions and other things. I definitely don't mind, because these are honest, civil conversations, and we're both learning some pretty important shit.

I full get the "different conditions being mistaken for the same thing" piece. As I mentioned in my second (?) reply, I was misdiagnosed as bipolar and then schizophrenic because no one bothered to, you know, fucking look at my history. Granted, I do have Major Depressive Disorder, General Anxiety Disorder, OCD, Borderline, and some other things, but DID was driving me, especially back when I was being diagnosed. But I was thrown on Lithium. Lots of good that does someone with DID.

Anyhow, I'm bitching. But yeah, I do think it applies here, at least in a way. I mean, DID is a Thing, but if Healthy Multiplicity crosses into a boundary where you are never YOU because you use it to hide from life - then a doc would need to address that, I'd assume. And the DSM definitely doesn't cover that. Hell, I actually hate the acronym DID. I prefer MPD, or Multiple Personality Disorder. Let's call it what it is. Dissociative Identity is all fine and well, but people can dissociate without other identities, too. That's such a familiar coping strategy that about 30-40% of Americans do it here and there. But fewer than 1% of people have DID.

There should be more docs who deal with things that aren't "in the book." I don't dislike the DSM, and gods know the insurance companies will keep using it for codes (because we all know that's what they do), but it's a bit limited. If something healthy becomes unhealthy, but it's not in the book, what does a doc do with that? And even worse, what does the person do? Would you be falsely diagnosed with DID? Not by a good doc, but it's possible.

It sounds like a construct - YOU created this to help you cope. You didn't wake up one morning and find out you'd gone on a drinking binge at the age of 14 because a different personality came out and took over your body. So for you, it's there, and is definitely a Real Thing, but I guess the real question is why. Is it JUST for coping, or is it because something happened you can't remember so you use this as a tool? Or you DO remember something you don't want to? I'm asking simply because I don't know.

It all interests me tremendously, too. How wonderful and intriguing and fucked-up is the brain? How DOES it really fragment to create alters or different personalities or allow us to slip into different states? I mean, I slipped and hit my head in 2010, and then had a series of five seizures follow that. My brain was WIPED. I suffered from a TBI, and have retrograde amnesia from birth to age 13. Memories from ages 14-28, when it happened, are slowly returning, but it's been almost three years. And still - when I came to, out of a coma, with my husband by my side, I asked if he was my doctor and said my name was Ruby. My brain KNEW Ruby despite being slammed around and zapped by seizures. HOW? Those things are just - bizarre. It is all like a behavioral study, with us trying to figure out what equates to what. Are we whole? Fragmented? Does it matter? Or is it just unique and something we live with, and that's that?

I don't know many people with actual DID, but it's nice talking to someone who at least gets the general concept. Again, I can spot a faker, and you aren't one. And I appreciate having an honest conversation about this, and learning more. (Oh, and good luck finding a decent book on multiplicity or DID. I've read several, and nothing has helped. But I am writing a memoir, so, it may not DEFINE anything, but maybe people will relate to it.) We just need less sensationalism and bullshit, and more "this is a real thing, and here's how people deal with it" out in the world.

Hope you got your nap in! I should try to do the same, but alas - insomnia. I do hope to talk to you again about this soon, because it's nice to be able to do so openly. And again, you did NOT offend me. I hope I didn't offend you at all.

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Sure, if that works for you! That way we can ground all these comments.

I find it so fascinating that your people are mainly RPG characters...

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SERENA'S BACKSTORY, I WANTS TO KNOW MORE OF IT.

*** The original comment is below. ***

I'm curious about Serena in that she has evolved from the original source. Does she still have a backstory? I mean, has that evolved, too, or is she more of a presence whose existence is now completely created by and living inside you, and not derived from or referring to any other continuum/outside-of-you reality/storyline? Jesus. I am not sure that question made sense. It makes sense in my head.

It's just . . . when it's a thing that you cultivate deliberately, you're aware of the character's origins, and I'm wondering if that changes for you, because it never has for me. A LOT of them -- most, by a huge majority -- never get past the fourth wall; they may be aware of me -- some aren't -- but aren't aware of the existence of this world as separate from theirs. At best, I could describe their awareness of me, the ones I talk to but who don't understand what they are, as being like . . . they are interacting with me while *they* are in a dream state, or like I'm an imaginary part of them, to them. Part of this is partitioning, I think, because there's the issue of What is Canon. Most are RPG characters; time moves in fits and starts for them, and too much tampering risks changing them from them as a character to them as the person I interact with, separately.

But then I can have someone like the Baron, who does not give me a choice about it. Who is like, "I see you there, I know who you are, and I know how this works. Thanks for letting me access your brains, btw. Makes it much easier. Now I know as much about your world as you do. Now, here's what we have to do. . . ." He is explicitly aware of all of it, and will interact with the others, too, with ZERO fucks given about continuum or timeline or anything. He'll play with people on the internet, sometimes.

And all of it sounds completely insane laid out like that, when it's really not as crazy as it sounds. It's just . . . discussing the interior mechanics of a very odd coping strategy that creates its own logic as it goes along. So it sounds REALLY bizarre.

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Let me just copy my comments from your post so this all makes sense, and then I'll talk about Serena. :)

"Also, I am sometimes other people, a little bit. The DSM doesn't acknowledge those things as a deliberately and carefully cultivated coping mechanism, only as a bad thing indicative of other bad things. In context, it is healthy. In the book, it's pathological. Regardless, it's a sanity-saver, and one I continually seek to reinforce. Doesn't matter how it looks on paper. Say hello to the boys. They keep me safe."

In my case, say hello to the girls. I think I found a fourth one, but she is way too deep in my brain and won't come forth yet.
See, NIMH and DSM, this is called HEALTHY MULTIPLICITY. Coping mechanisms in the shape of fictional people helps preserve sanity.

Many epileptics have at least one, it seems, although they don't realize it - their people come to them in seizures and they rarely remember, believing it is just part of the seizure. I am lucky to know that Alicia is there to help me and that she is not merely a piece of seizure to be discarded after I wake up.
Serena has helped my sanity through fibromyalgia and hypertonia and nerve pain so often it is amazing.
And Amara, my Amara... I cannot even explain what she has done for me. Her name means Everlasting, Immortal. She preserves, she soothes, she heals, she holds my full brain damage in her arms and does her best to patch the cracks and keep the walls from crumbling. She has been with me since I was born. She only made herself known in the last few years, when I started getting worse and falling apart. She was not human for thirty years. Now she is and it means something huge.

You know what is funny? When I did Googling on Healthy Multiplicity, people got offended when the characters got called Coping Mechanisms. *scratches head*

I would be SO HAPPY to discuss my girls with you. Come at me with questions, I don't care what they are!

When I first "met" Serena, I was in college, and I was playing a Vampire: The Masquerade tabletop game. I had to come up with a really good character, so I chose Toreador and named her Sirena, and she liked to soothe people and comfort people, even victims before feeding. She went through a couple of physical transformations. Originally she had red hair and yellow eyes.
After the game ended (because the guy who started it got arrested and dropped out of school, long story), Sirena stayed in my head. I was having seizures, and I was having pains, and I just shrugged it off as cerebral palsy stuff, and Serena was always there to hold me through it. She stopped being a glorious vampire and became an elf-like entity. I would have conversations with her. Sometimes, when I would socially drop LSD, she would actually come out and BE me. Like, "My name is not Joanna. I am Sirena" - and she was not me. She was kind of regal and elegant in a way that many people born into money and opulence are by instinct, and she was never haughty or anything. At heart she was like the ultimate nurse with a beautiful bedside manner. She was REAL inside me. She was someone I CREATED but she had a LIFE inside my mind. It was very obvious I did NOT have DID - when I told my doctors about it, they said, "It sounds like you have a very, very creative form of healthy multiplicity, a good coping mechanism."
Years later, she became Serena with an E, because, well, obvious. And her appearance changed to black hair, dark green eyes, and a naturally light bronze complexion. Like one of her ancestors was from India (Chakma, I think; makes me want to really research Theravada). Funny that I still don't know her last name. Funny, also, that she uses many Ayurvedic techniques when helping me cope. She is one huge reason I started getting into holistics and ancient medicine.
Oooh! Sometimes I would find notes I wrote to myself, signed by Serena! That's so interesting that I am not the only one.

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BACKSTORY!

Okay, well... I did just explain the Vampire RPG, but that was Sirena, not Serena, so.

Serena was born into a very rich family full of doctors and scientists (neurology, physics, biology, psychiatry, osteopathy). When I said she might have Chakma Indian heritage, I think it's because her grandparents were from that part of India and practiced Theraveda Buddhism as well as Ayurvedic healing. I feel like Serena has been to India a bunch of times.
Serena herself practices various forms of holistic medicine and in fact has a couple of doctorates. She lives alone in a very opulent, elegant house, with several cats, a half Husky half wolf dog, a few birds. Lots of red and gold, velvet and silk and satin. She prefers jeans and cotton or velvet shirts. I often see her with motorcycle boots on. She wears narrow blue reading glasses.
I don't know any of her relatives; all I know is her home and what she does in it.
I often find myself reclining on a king sized bed with red velvet and gold silk sheets and pillows (breathable memory foam with bamboo fibers) while she concocts treatments and balances them with pharmaceuticals.
Also, her house smells like lotus flowers, roses, amber, chocolate, rum, and coffee.

Anything else you want to know? How specific should I get? See, I am still getting to know Serena in her environment, past just her person.

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It's not all that surprising given how much TIME I spend with them. One of the group games can be weekly for well over a year. One on one, a couple times a week for two-three months, but in the case of most of the really strong ones, several TIMES over a number of years, as each movie/novel/season has a sequel or gets renewed. We play through one long story arc one on one, Sargon and I, and when that's over, we move to someone else for a while, and then come back later for another longer arc.

That's not counting the REALLY INTENSE time I spend with the character after character creation/conception and before play begins, usually about two weeks while things get planned out, where details of their personality emerge and they start to acquire quirks and so on different from what I originally planned. By the time play begins, they've already undergone a little evolution and acquired a little depth. I know things about almost all of them that have never made it onscreen or been talked about. (It's a hell of a lot like character creation for a novel; you have to know them before you stop writing.)

It was in the middle of that really intense character-forming process that I made that Martian chess set, because Shara is Barsoomian, and its backstory is part of her unofficial canon. (She is also why there's a goddamn lava lamp next to my bed right now, blooping away.)

Which leads me to ask if your people acquire things, because mine sure as shit do. The Baron is AWFUL about that. Model horse, candleholder, card box, cards, wolf mask, shortsword, knife, the earring I wear that never comes out ever. . . . I made that card box, and as soon as it was done, and I was going "What should I charge for this?" he very politely asked if he could have it, even though he couldn't properly pay for it. So . . . I still have the thing. I wrote about Jandar's claw necklace and bowl of goddamn rocks.

I find it interesting that all of yours are female, and very nearly all of mine are male. (At least 3/4.)

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Ooh, acquiring things...
I never actually thought about that, but yes. Very yes. Serena likes shiny gems in bracelets. Alicia is all about pendants and rings (and she was the one who nagged me about my medical ID dog tag that says Epilepsy, Hypertonia, and CP (Palsy) since I really do need it), although we did dress it up with jump rings, hanging from a lepidolite stone pentacle and a lotus mandala charm.
Amara, it seems, is responsible for rearranging all the dragon figurines and the My Little Pony dolls.
I'm saying "WE" because, I mean, they ARE in my head. All the time. We chat. But they don't come out of my head unless absolutely fucking emergency necessary, like if I get horrid dysphasia post-seizure and keep jumbling my words or just stop speaking and start gibbering.
And like, okay, it's not like they physically take over and move my hands, but they will make suggestions. "That thing should go there. No, don't buy that now, buy it next weekend." And I hear them as distinct voices flavored with my own voice if that makes sense...

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Healthy Multiplicity is extremely common in perfectly healthy people. It is often seen as a form of coping mechanism for many disabled people, who need to sometimes retreat into their creative minds to preserve themselves, to soothe their mental conditions, to know that they are able and capable and strong. Because sometimes, being reassured by loved ones falls hollow, and you know your own mind well enough, and your own mind knows you well enough.

See, I'd never realized it's as common as it is. And I say that not from looking at numbers, but from the number of people I've run into who have consciously cultivated it. Guess it's like driving a red car. You suddenly see more of them.

I explain it to people as taking parts of my personality that I desperately need, but that are affected strongly by my mental illness, and keeping around characters that embody those things so that I can access them. When I'm down with a bad case of "I don't know what to do!" indecisiveness/panic, I can't necessarily access my own rational decision-making side. But if I've personified and externalized it in the form of an imaginary person, it's protected from that disruption, to some extent, and I can access what I need through them. It makes it harder for me to lose control over certain things, and makes it easier to reassert control once a containment failure has occurred. It enables me to be compassionate, too, when I would otherwise be cruel to myself. And it allows me to see myself through someone else's eyes, even a little bit, for purposes of bullshit detection. It's a way for me to deliberately get out of my own way and stop interfering with myself in a bad way.

Depression or whatnot lies, and it lies well, because it lies with your own voice. And when you try to counter it, it can fail, because one of the lies it tells is that whatever YOU say to YOURSELF is wrong. But what IT says is true. I have cultivated "voices" that are different enough, that I have pushed away from me enough, to be able to talk to me from the other side of the fence with slightly more authority. I can invoke them and generally what they have to say is much more unbiased by panic, logical failures, self-loathing, and the like, so they are more trustworthy. Still parts of me, definitively and definitely, but distinct enough to do their jobs when the rest of me is flailing.

It's not a perfectly effective strategy. Sometimes I am a total mess and they can't do a thing with me. But it is surprisingly effective.

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