Yes, I'm Talking Politics. Shut Up.

[brightlotusmoon]

I never thought I'd be defending a politician I can't stand, but this bears repeating.
Ya know that "book list" that Sarah Palin supposedly wants banned? It's making the rounds online and enraging people, but, see, here's the funny thing: It's not real. (See numbers 40 to 43) It's a fake list. Most of those books were published after her time in office when she would have called for the ban.
Yes, I know, it all looks real, and it angers a lot of you. It would piss me off too, if it was true. A lot of what Palin stands for pisses me off, but I see no reason to believe everything that people say about her. Okay? Okay.
Let me repeat that, in case someone wants to yell at me: I. Don't. Like. Palin's. Politics. But I am not going to go crying over something as ridiculous as many of the rumors on that website. No, I don't think said website is the most awesome, wonderful thing ever. But it's better than a lot of the stuff I've been seeing, which is starting to feel like a bunch of urban legends.
Guys, I love you all. But please please please check your facts. Not everything you read and hear about politicians and authority figures is true. This goes for Palin, Biden, McCain, Obama, Lrr From The Planet Omicron Persei 8, Morbo, The Doctor, The Master, the Goa'uld, the Tok'ra, the Ori, Dr. Phlox, and the Vulcans.
I just want to be informed. This is me being informed. So, if you want to debate and argue, go ahead, but I'd rather look at the whole story and decide if I should hate Palin based on rumors or on truth.
And those of you who know me also know that I really hate talking about politics. And I am neither conservative nor liberal. So for me to post an entry like this is serious, for me, personally. Got it?
Okay, then.
This is me shutting up now.

EDIT: Also? I won't be responding to comments that want to start arguments. If you give me links and such, I'll read them and form my own opinion. And see, there's a funny word: Opinion. Everyone has one. But make sure that your opinion is not the only truth out there, 'kay? I know what I personally think. You don't have to tell me.
Seriously, I love you, but I'm gonna step out of any shouting matches.

Comments

[fionavere.livejournal.com]

Preach on sister!

Also: Reading comprehension and critical thinking are beautiful, awesome things. Use them. (Not that you don't, just you know, like, everyone else :P)

[brightlotusmoon.livejournal.com]

And therein lies the problem. Today's education system seems to be lacking in proper reading comprehension and critical thinking. Not only are school-age kids not getting a decent sort of education, but it's affecting adults who have been out of school for decades. I remember when the distinction between "me" and "I" wasn't so disputed, for instance. Now it's everywhere. People in their forties can't remember which pronoun to use, but they could when they were in their twenties.

[chaosvizier.livejournal.com]

Dr. Phlox is an agent for the evil leftist liberal agenda and anyone who says otherwise is a PINKO COMMIE BASTARD!

Other than that, I agree. ;-)

[brightlotusmoon.livejournal.com]

And here I thought he was just extremely quirky.
Color me shocked. Shocked, I tell you.

Does this mean I should turn in my "Phlox For Galactic Emperor" bumper sticker? Because I already decorated it with glitter.

[chaosvizier.livejournal.com]

A vote for Phlox is a vote for killing cute baby Ewoks.

...ok, well, that's not really so bad. But still.

[brightlotusmoon.livejournal.com]

It is if the adult Ewoks come after us.

[chaosvizier.livejournal.com]

Which is why we should have the right to carry vicious Ewok-killing automatic phase-plasma rifles. Phlox wants to ban these weapons, but how will that help us when a horde of rabid Ewoks comes stampeding out of the hills to murder us in our sleep? That's right. YOU ARE NOT THE BOSS OF MY PULSE RIFLE, PHLOX!

(Political debate in fictional universes is fun! ;-) )

[brightlotusmoon.livejournal.com]

I strongly support the right to own automatic phase-plasma rifles. I mean, if I can't protect my own home from rabid Ewoks, I just don't feel safe!

(I'd much rather debate fictional politics, anyway.)

Just the facts

[greenwillow27.livejournal.com]

The list of banned books (the one I found anyway) is pure satire. No, she never banned anything. She did ask her local librarian how to go about banning books and subsequently tried to fire her for not cooperating. http://news.bostonherald.com/news/national/politics/2008/view.bg?articleid=1117009&srvc=home&position=emailed

She did approve --in fact court the federal funds for the in famous "bridge to nowhere" and then change her mind when it became a political embarrassment. In the past McCain has used that bridge project as a case in point to decry pork-barrel spending. http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-08-31-palin-bridge_N.htm

Palin claims to have opposed "pork-barrel" ear-mark funds from the feds but while in office she hired a lobbyist to garner more of exactly that kind of funding for Alaska. Alaska leads the nation in per capita "pork barrel" spending. http://www.cagw.org/site/PageServer?pagename=reports_pigbook2005

She has been a strong proponent of abstinence -only sex ed (which includes deliberate misinformation on the effectiveness of condoms.)http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/01/1320417.aspx

She would take away a woman's right to choose whether to carry a fetus to term, even in cases of rape. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/01/palin-on-abortion-id-oppo_n_122924.html

She did approve/ put through legislation to allow the slaughter of wolves from helicopters in order to "protect" the caribou so the hunters can kill them instead. (Apparently these people have never read Never Cry Wolf or anything else that explains the caribou/wolf relationship)http://www.salon.com/env/feature/2008/09/08/sarah_palin_wolves/

Here is ABC's fact check broadcast following her very first interview yesterday: http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=5786925

Re: Just the facts

[brightlotusmoon.livejournal.com]

It's the wolf hunting that really gets me the most, believe it or not. I hate aerial culling so so much.

About the rest of it... see, I'm just not sure. I don't trust The Huffington Post or Salon completely. I'm willing to read it all, of course.

Re: Just the facts

[ronin-lethe.livejournal.com]

*irritation*

re: abstinance only sex ed: http://palinsexismwatch.blogspot.com/2008/09/does-sarah-palin-support-abstinence.html

as far as the bridge to nowhere, the alaskan democratic party admits that she stopped the project: http://www.retireted.com/category/real-estate/gravina-bridge/

read this:
http://explorations.chasrmartin.com/2008/09/06/palin-rumors/

and this:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html

also. yes, she ear-marked money for her state. as do all governors. or do you think states magic up money from the sky?

and stop quoting the huffington post. they stand slightly to the left of chairman mao and are about as reliable as any news source that china's government allows it's citizens access to.

Re: Just the facts

[fionavere.livejournal.com]

You chose some terribly biased sources (huffpo? Seriously?), and misinterpreted some of them at that.

Sarah Palin, according to the article you linked to, did not "ask her local librarian how to go about banning books and subsequently tried to fire her for not cooperating."

She did, however, ask the librarian if she would be ok with banning books, the librarian said no. A resignation was asked for from the librarian. She ended up keeping her job. There are a lot of gaps here. You filled them in with what you wanted to be true. Asking a librarian if they would be ok with book banning is not the same thing as trying to find out how to go about doing it. It has been stated that her reasons for asking were rhetorical, to feel out her positions on certain things. All we have to go on is someone's word on that one, so it may or may not be true; but the fact that it might not be true that she was asking this question rhetorically, does not prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that she wasn't. Also, Sarah Palin asked for the librarian's resignation, along with several other city officials who supported her opponent. She did this shortly after taking office. This is not an uncommon practice. Sarah Palin did not invent this. Every public official will do a little house cleaning after taking office. Do you think when the new president is sworn in that the Bush administration, with the exception of Bush himself, will be keeping their jobs?

According to the article that you linked to (from the msnbc no less) Sarah Palin also did not claim to be a strong proponent of abstinence only sex education. She did, however, respond to a poorly worded question by saying that an explicit sex-ed only program would not find her support. That is not the same as saying she would *only* support an abstinence only program.

[ronin-lethe.livejournal.com]

see, this is why i have so much respect for you.
and this is also exactly what i have been pleading for recently. i don't need people to agree with me--hell, what a boring world that would be!--but i do so desperately need people to use critical thinking. or any sort of thinking. at all.
it is perfectly fine to like or dislike or support or not support anyone you choose. that's part of why this country is so awesome. but just do it for reasons that are true and real, not based on lies, half-truths and rumors.
*snuggles*
you rock.

[brightlotusmoon.livejournal.com]

Well, you have certainly been instrumental in my road to rational and critical thinking in politics.
*snuggles back*

[gwynethfar.livejournal.com]

I don't get why people are like, "OH NO TEH BOOKS" still, when Time.com reported that when she was mayor of Wasaillia, rape victims were charged for the rape kit exams. Or, you know, the fact that she wants to tell all women what to do with their bodies and encourages abstinence only sex education.

People need to focus on the fact that this bitch is pure evil, not "OMG BANNED BOOKS IS SRS BIZNIS!!!1!!"

[ronin-lethe.livejournal.com]

http://palinsexismwatch.blogspot.com/2008/09/does-sarah-palin-support-abstinence.html

PLEASE stop repeating the abstinence only lie. it has been debunked. thoroughly.
and what evidence do you have that she wants to "tell women what to do with their bodies"? because she's pro-life? so is joe biden. show me ONE piece of legislation she has supported or proposed that indicates that she wants to tell women what to do with their bodies.
and i think it's so charming that "this bitch is pure evil" because she's a pro-life conservative. i'm a pro-choice conservative. am i a half-evil bitch?

[gwynethfar.livejournal.com]

I apologize for repeating something that I heard from the mainstream media, took as fact, and did not realize had been falsely reported. Newsweek reported the abstinence-only education story in early September, and, going back to the article, I see they have printed a retraction. But maybe you need to calm down, you know, just a tick. I never called you an evil bitch. I called the woman who believes that rape victims need to pay for justice an evil bitch. Because you know what? Allowing that to happen on her watch is absolutely unacceptable. Treating rape like a lesser crime than theft IS evil. It has nothing to do with conservatism. It has to do with the fact that someone would have to be either seriously mentally screwed up or completely devoid of a soul and any ability to empathize to think that there should be financial repercussions to RAPE.

As for her pro-life stance, I don't need proof that she wants to tell women what to do with their bodies. She is a member of Feminists For Life... do you have any idea what a horrible, anti-choice organization that is? They flat out lie about birth control options to women, they lie about abortion, they lie about being for women. If Sarah Palin didn't believe in it, she wouldn't be a member. Full stop. Joe Biden is pro-life, but he also doesn't belong to an organization that believes lying to women is okay, so long as it saves babies.

[ronin-lethe.livejournal.com]

*merry laughter*

actually, i probably know more about feminists for life than you do.
before you go all hysterical (and WHO needs to calm down a tick here?) i want you to screw your eyes up real tight and take a deep breath a repeat to yourself: "i am not the absolute authority on abortion"
do tell me how an organization that is anti-abortion "lies to women". please do tell me how an organization that encourages choices OTHER than abortion is "horribly anti choice".
do be careful. i worked at NARAL for two years and am educated in constitutional law. it would make me so happy if you were also. but i kind of get the feeling you're not.

PS--not responding to the rape thing because i need to look into it more. you bring up a good point and i am interested in learning more about it. guess what? this conservative beeeyatch doesn't talk if she doesn't know what she's talking about. "feelings" don't count. it's a charming trait. you should try it.

[gwynethfar.livejournal.com]

Excuse me? Why bring up your law degree? Are you threatening me with legal action because I'm saying things I don't like about Feminists For Life? Grow up.

This conversation is absolutely over.

[ronin-lethe.livejournal.com]

*blinkity blink*
actually my degree is in microbial genetics.
i studied constitutional law in college.
and i am actually really so terribly sad for you if you feel that someone else's knowledge is a threat.

what an awful, pitiful life you must lead. if you can't even take an intellectual challenge for what it is, but instead see it as someone doing something or threatening something against you.

i don't *know* you. i thought we might engage in some sort of intelligent debate. obviously we disagree. that does not, in my mind, make either of us bad people, and i am truly grateful that you have given me something to investigate (the rape issue) about which i was previously uninformed. a challenge to fact is exactly that--can you hold your position?

sadly, you seem to think this is personal.

honey, i don't have TIME to get personal with people. i like to think the people with whom i hold discourse are smart enough to hold their own in the face of a contrary opinion.

thanks for proving me wrong.

[greenwillow27.livejournal.com]

My point exactly.

I made the mistake of offering supporting documentation.

[gwynethfar.livejournal.com]

That's okay, I'll offer supporting documentation for my evil slander against the woman who let rape victims be charged for rape kit exams while she served as mayor of the town who was "unique" in this practice: http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1840723,00.html?imw=Y

To be honest, I think Palin was picked for VP not because she's a woman, not because she's the most qualified, but because she has made so many controversial political decisions in so short a time that the heat is now off of McCain, who wasn't looking real competent to begin with.

Maybe, too, because of all the attention in the media Obama got by picking the "wrong" running mate. It's like that publicity all went away as soon as Palin got picked, because every news outlet just JUMPED on her.

[greenwillow27.livejournal.com]

Sorry to have confused everyone with the facts.
If you choose to dismiss the news sources-- which were just picked because they came in at the top of my Google searches-- there's not much more I can say. There are lots of articles with the exact same information.

All this does is support my theory that political opinion is formed largely based on personality type.

[fionavere.livejournal.com]

Are you fucking kidding me?!?!

Your comment had little or nothing to do with facts. My comment pointed out to you how you took those very same "facts" (whose sources are dubious imo, but we'll dismiss that for a second) and misinterpreted them! She never said many of the things you credited her with saying, in YOUR words! You paraphrased, and you did so poorly and inaccurately!

I'll shut up now because I respect and care for rosefox8 but I could not let that one slide.

[brightlotusmoon.livejournal.com]

Right on.
See why I hate talking politics? *smiles*
I've seen those Palin smears so many times it's not even funny -- not that it ever was.
It's okay if people want to view Palin the way they do, with hatred and bile, calling her evil. That's fine with me. But you and I and Beca and Adam and various others won't. And that's okay too, doesn't make us evil. That's not to say we like Palin. But for heaven's sake, fact check fact check fact check, right?

*headdesk*

[ronin-lethe.livejournal.com]

okay, see, here's how this works:
you say something is a "fact" and provide documentation. i say, no, that has actually been disproven, and provide you the appropriate documentation.
i am not dismissing anything except the huffington post, which--seriously? they themselves admit and claim bias. imao, NOT a valid "news" source. just like i don't prove my point with links to, say right wing news. ya dig?
i'm sorry you want so much for palin to be pro abstinence. but the truth is she really isn't. this isn't based on my "personality type". this is based on the truth. and notice i didn't call you out on everything you said, because some of it IS true and should be out in the public sphere.
and i am kind of totally in love with the implied smear against me in the "personality type" coment. if you mean i'm a opinionated, aggressive, assertive, warmongering bitch, you're goddamn right.
*sweet smile*

Re: *headdesk*

[brightlotusmoon.livejournal.com]

But you're my opinionated, aggressive, assertive, warmongering bitch. *grin*

[sophy.livejournal.com]

The only thing I have to add is that this discussion is a perfect excuse to use this icon that I love. :)

[brightlotusmoon.livejournal.com]

Hahahaha! Awesome! I want! I want! How do I make it so that it's animated like that?

[sophy.livejournal.com]

The icon was made by neitherday - I'd check with her, but it was given out as ones people could take, so she'd probably be cool with you grabbing it. :)

It comes animated - I haven't quite sorted out how to animate icons myself, so I just grab ones that other people make. heh

[greenwillow27.livejournal.com]

and i am kind of totally in love with the implied smear against me in the "personality type" coment. if you mean i'm a opinionated, aggressive, assertive, warmongering bitch, you're goddamn right.

No, that wasn't directed at you personally. It was a general comment and really what I meant, but didn't elaborate upon, was that this is all sort of an exercise in futility, given that everyone is going to believe what they want to believe. All of us can find documentation to back up our opinions, too. I think the sources I linked were fairly reliable, but I know that's a pretty subjective judgment, as anyone's would be.

Look, I have obviously wandered into the wrong party. It's one of the hazards of online communication-- you can never really be sure if in an attempt to just make conversation you're going to get lively debate or get attacked.

[todabrilla.livejournal.com]

I applaud you for not taking anything at face value and for fact checking. I have profound problems with Palin (hmmm, unintended consonance), but I like to make sure that my criticisms are valid.

[brightlotusmoon.livejournal.com]

Exactly. I'm not trying to defend her, honestly. I'm saying, "Hey, um, that stuff might not be totally true. Why don't you find out first before going on an angry rant?"

Nice alliteration, by the way.