Good comments

[brightlotusmoon]

http://ginmar.livejournal.com/902424.html
Yeah, I think some have forgotten. It doesn't matter what the actual organized religion is, be it Christianity, Islam, Wicca, etc... I really wonder if people know what they do when they condemn another person for being different or who doesn't believe in their particular faith. Nobody is perfect. Yes, I am angry at organized religion for becoming something that has sold out and where hardly anyone practices what they preach anymore. But I still believe in the basics. No, I don't believe in God. I believe in something else. I wish people would accept that and leave me alone. Like the other day, which I did not talk about: An old woman in Starbucks interrupted me reading my book, drinking my coffee; to ask me if I had been saved. When I said no, we started talking. I told her honestly that I was pagan, I told her what I believed in. She said to my face, "You are a sinner and a blasphemer. You are a devil worshipper. You will go to hell if you do not accept Jesus." When I explained myself further, saying that yes, I was a witch, but no I did not believe in Satan, she flinched and her eyes widened and I thought for a second that she might hit me. I said, "Didn't Jesus teach you Christians to love your fellow people, not condemn them?" She said, "I am trying to save you, you ungrateful witch!" I asked her if she really cared about what a stranger believed, since it didn't affect her. She said she was meant to spread the word of God and try to save others. Keep in mind that this was in a corner of the store, and we were speaking in low voices. She wasn't causing a scene. And I realized, suddenly, that she was just doing what she believed. She was doing what her faith asked her to do. I could not snap at her. I could not talk back or get angry, because what would that prove? She truly believes this. Who am I to be angry for that? If she had tried to hurt me in anyway, push me, hinder me, then I would have called the store manager to get her away from me. But I only gently stepped aside, bid her good day, and left. I was not about to start an argument with a Christian who was doing what Christians in her particular secr believe they are supposed to do. That's the point of having varying belief systems. She wanted to antagonize me; I didn't feel like giving her what she wanted, not in a public place. She could yell and rant at me all she wanted. It wasn't going to make me convert. And I think that's what people need to realize. I think I've gotten better. All I want is for the hatred and prejudice to stop -- on all sides. Pagans are just as guilty, just in different ways.

Anyway.

I spent some time with an Amish community during a high school trip. They really are extraordinary people.

Comments

[morningstar4.livejournal.com]

It's odd to me when I hear stories like this. Yes, as Christians, we are supposed to go out and tell others about Jesus and being saved, but her reactions to you are not typical of most of the Christians I know. We're taught to accept people for who they are and that everyone has a choice. Yes, we are to deliver a message, just as most other religions, but to tell you you're a Satan worshipper...that's going rather far. The God we worship wants us to be tolerant of others, regardless of their upbringing, religious beliefs, lifestyle, sexual orientation, etc.

Some Christians are very pushy. I think it's because they care so much. They want people to see the truth that they believe in. They don't mean to condemn (well...the TRUE Christians don't), but they can really come across that way a lot of times because of their approach. What they don't understand is that they push people away rather than getting them to see their point of view.

But you're right--I think every religion (or at least people IN those religions) is guilty of certain prejudices. We all think the other religions are incorrect, for example. ;)

I'm all for tolerance and allowing people to be who they are, as long as they're not hurting others or themselves.

[brightlotusmoon.livejournal.com]

See, I wish all the Christians I have met were like you. I think you are so... real. Honest. True to who you are, true to your faith, true to your God. Jesus would be proud, because you are actually spreading his message, not the message of Christians who pretend to love him. Does that make any sense?

I think you are correct in that they care too much. It makes me think about my views about organic health products, and things like that. I want my friends to see that organic products are really good for the body but I don't want to get pushy. Religion is sort of like that, times ten, if you get it from very passionate believers who insist that their way is the best or only way.
See, Dawn, I like your God. I really do. I think he's awesome, even if I don't worship him or even accept him. However, I don't like the God portrayed by people like that women. (does that make sense too?) I think that each person carries with them a piece of their god or faith, that they represent that god, and the god can only be as good and wonderful and convincing as the person delivering the message.
For example, say you have a Celtic pagan who worships the Morrigan. The Morrigan is a death and war goddess, very demanding and very powerful and very fierce. Depending on how the pagan explains the Morrigan to somehow, the goddess can come off as either an amazing deity who shows humans to fight for themselves, or she can come off as a horrendous warrior who demands sacrifice.
If a Christian tells me that "God will strike you down for not accepting him," I will think that God is not very nice. If they say, "God loves you and wants you to love him but still keep yourself," then I might be interested in learning more. I still won't convert -- but I'll listen!

[morningstar4.livejournal.com]

I get your point, totally, and I agree with you.

The God I believe in is a loving God. I would think any god would have to be really, you know? To create us and care enough to watch over us? And I know that if I were a god, I would want people to love, worship and obey me because they wanted to, not because I forced them to. Forcing them would mean they're loyalty and belief would mean nothing.

If God really did "strike people down" for not accepting him, then there would be lots and lots of dead bodies strewn around. ;) And we wouldn't have free will to make our own choices and follow our own paths. We would be pre-programmed to believe in only him.

No one wants to be judged harshly simply for what they believe in. Christians seem to get that the worst, which I guess is a bi-product of the ones out there who are complete idiots--mostly people claiming to be Christians, but not really even grasping the concept of what that really means. And they're the example that most people unfortunately see, so they get the totally wrong idea about what my beliefs are all about. It's really frustrating. Just as I'm sure it's frustrating to meet people like that and have them tell you you're a Satan worshipper just because you don't agree with them. They don't know you; how the hell would they know who you worship or how you live your life?

Thank you for the compliments. I consider myself to be very open-minded. I think that it's important for people to share their beliefs and faiths with one another and to try to understand them. And I also think that when it really comes down to it, what you choose to believe and how you live your life is between you and God (and whatever else you choose to worship).

[brightlotusmoon.livejournal.com]

Exactly.
See, the main stigmas for Christians, I think, is that they hate and condemn anyone who doesn't believe in their religion, and the main stigma for pagans is that people are misinformed about them and think they worship demons and make blood sacrifices. I can't even keep up with the countless times Christian parents tried to boycott the Harry Potter books from schools because the books "teaches witchcraft and the occult, and witches are teh eeeevil!" However, Christians aren't exactly loved either, because people see someone like Fred Phelps or Pat Robertson and they think all Christians are like that.
It's such a mess. I wish I wasn't so angry at organized religion, but I can't help it when I hear about a fanatically evangelical or fundamentalist preacher screaming at the top of his lungs about the evils of this and that, and how God wants him to run gay people out of town, etc etc. It's ridiculous. That's not what religions should be about.
Did you know that religions began as simple communities, people coming together to share a simple belief and be a part of something? The word religion is derived from the word "rely" after all. It wasn't about a higher power, it was about people. It was about sharing, loving, accepting, and understanding.
I don't think that's what it's about anymore...

[morningstar4.livejournal.com]

Yeah. And I think the main reason Christians are given that stigma of condemnation is because of the radicals who get on some sort of power trip and think they're better than everyone else. It sickens me. I was actually talking to Anthony about all of this last night on the way home from the vet. We were discussing an article someone posted on my f-list about that baptist church that was going to protest at the amish funerals. A spokeswoman for that church was going on about how those little girls deserved to die because the Amish doesn't serve God, only themselves. And I'm like WTF!?!?!? How can those people even call themselves Christians??? That is NOT what God teaches, you know? And yet they're the ones that make the news. It's like our society can't focus on the good people do, only the bad. You don't get to see all the Christians who are good people and who help others and who are tolerant and loving. And unfortunately, it's much the same with Pagans and other religions and beliefs.

I know all about how some Christians feel about the Harry Potter books, believe me! And I think it's totally ridiculous. Most of those people who go on and on about the evils in those books haven't even taken the time to read them. Sure, they'll read bits and pieces and then force their own interpretations on those pieces without ever really seeing the true context. People who judge things without knowing the full story really aggravate me. And I guess that's why I get so aggravated about the reaction toward Christianity too. Those horrible, judgemental, cruel people are such a small, small fraction of the Christian community. And in fact, I seriously doubt they're real Christians at all. And yet, that is what the world has to go by when they look at us. :P

I can understand why you're angry. It's almost the same thing as racial prejudice. Sure, with religion we have a choice, but it's the basic nature of a person, as well as their own personal experiences through life that helps them decide what to believe and shapes them into the person they become. How can we judge one another for that?

[brightlotusmoon.livejournal.com]

Oh, I totally absolutely agree! I grew up not really knowing what religion was -- when I was in sixth grade and starting a new school, the kids teased me for not having a religion and being raised by an atheist and an agnostic. Mom gave me a bunch of books about religion and world mythology and explained what it all meant. I decided to become agnostic and I became fascinated with Greek mythology. I encountered people from all sorts of religions. Unfortunately, the only Christians I encountered were the ones that gave Christianity that stigma. In college, they tried to force it. When I became pagan, they assumed immediately that I worshipped Satan, that I did black magic, and that I sacrificed children at midnight. Seriously! They mistook me for Wiccan, which is its own religion (which still annoys me; Wiccans are pagans but not all pagans are Wiccans, people, get it right!).
I don't think they were real Christians at all: Because later on, I met some Christians who were so sweet and caring, and so understanding and so accepting. In fact, this one guy said to me, "I know you don't accept my God or Jesus, and that's okay. I think you should go with what works for you. God doesn't work for everyone. But he is still watching over you, in some form or another. I believe that God is in all your gods, so I know you'll be fine." I was so touched that I hugged him.
My high school best friend never did understand my polytheism, and she did try to argue with me. She said she couldn't understand how I could believe in so many different gods. She also insisted, every time we hung out, that there was just one god who was the true god, and my catch phrase with her became, "Your beliefs and my beliefs, Cindy, I have my gods and you have your God. Can we just leave it at that?" Funny thing is that after I became pagan and we saw each other over the summers during college, she asked me lots of questions about being a witch. She really wanted to understand because she didn't think witches were evil. I think in the end she accepted me, at least.

[todabrilla.livejournal.com]

Wow, that sounds terrible. I've never been that harshly condemned by a radical religious wingnut. As cruel and hypocritical as it was, think of it as a compliment and turn the whole incident on its head. You are anathema to narrow-minded, hateful people (I don't mean all Christians here, people). That just reinforces the fact that you are a good person.

Besides isn't there a certain hypocrisy in trying to save the gentiles? I've always construed Matthew 15:24 "I was only sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" as a refutation of the idea of evangelism beyond the Hebrew tribes. ;)

[brightlotusmoon.livejournal.com]

I've heard about other pagans having it worse than that. This one woman was actually cornered by three Christian teenage boys who shoved her, taunted her, and tried to push a cross into her cheek to see if it burned her. They called her Satan's Whore and things like that. I was stunned.

[todabrilla.livejournal.com]

That's horrible! Good job of following "the king of peace", people. Sigh. Some days it's hard to have much faith in humanity.

[faire-damsel.livejournal.com]

*Hugs* I HATE It When That Happens. And You're A Better Woman Than I Am. I'd Have Lost It At "You Ungrateful Witch". Seriously. I'd Have Had Something To Say. {In A Ladylike, Way, Of Course, But I'd Have Still Said It.}

[brightlotusmoon.livejournal.com]

I would have liked to see that. ;)

[faire-damsel.livejournal.com]

*G* It Would Have Been Quite Entertaining, I Assure You!

[rhiannons-rose.livejournal.com]

I never thought about it in that way. Thanks.