a quick rant about grammar

[brightlotusmoon]

Adam and I carpooled this morning, since he has a job just down the street from where I work.
On the radio, a DJ made a grammar mistake: "That's okay, our listeners can just listen to Jimmy and I instead of Anthony." I muttered, "Jimmy and me. It's Jimmy and me." And again, I wondered who the fuck decided that misplacing "me" and "I" (and adding the utterly ridiculous and moronic "I's") was a good idea, was "more sophisticated" than actual good grammar. I'd like to shoot that person. What bothers me even more is the realization that people just don't care.
So I guess I shouldn't care either. Seriously. I won't bother anymore. No more politely correcting someone's grammar, because I'd get yelled at. No more getting frustrated because people seem to have forgotten so many grammar lessons from first and second grade. Possessive pronouns? Pah. Who even knows what they mean anymore? Yes, I am aware that "I's" is the nonstandard possessive of the nomitive pronoun "I" when used in a phrase (for example, "my wife and I's new puppy") but you know what, it still sounds wrong to me. I never learned that it was correct, I learned that it was extremely incorrect and poor use of grammar.

So, really, why should we even care about good grammar anymore, when the standard is now to forgoe proper possession, not bothering to remember to "remove the other pronoun to check the grammar of the phrase" (for example: "Meet Jimmy and me at the diner" is correct -- remove Jimmy, and it's still fine; "Meet me at the diner." Not "Meet I at the diner." Unless I is another person).

Who gives a fuck, anyway, huh? Why should I bother considering getting a degree in education so I can teach creative writing? Not when grammar is being turned on its head. People say, "Oh, well, it's only blogging, you don't need to check spelling and grammar when you're blogging, it's not an academic term paper or anything. Learn to lighten up. It doesn't matter."
But it matters. For gods' sake, it matters. Maybe nobody cares, though. But they are right, and I should lighten up.

My husband pissed me off by joking that he now knows the best way to get me angry and riled up, by poking fun at me for loving proper grammar, by deliberately using bad grammar to make me upset. If he decides to do that, he'll wind up with a bruised jaw and I'll have a sore fist. Knowing that he'd deliberately use my grammar geekery and grammar whorism to make fun of me when he knows I'm actually katagelophobic is a bit painful. But we worked it out. No hard feelings anymore. I cried and yelled and ranted, and we worked it out. Communication is very important.

I should lighten up, I know. It's only language. But when it's misused in everyday speech, by educated people who believe that the bad grammar is correct, I feel very bad for every English teacher out there who is struggling to show kids what actual good language is.

I shouldn't feel like crying and yelling when someone argues in favor of bad grammar. I should just take it in stride and laugh it off, and then remember the argument the next time someone's bad grammar is corrected.

I'm also tired and sore and I shouldn't be lashing out. So I'm done. No more posts about grammar, because I bet I've been irritating half my friends list. This is it.

Comments

[la-mia-cara.livejournal.com]

"my wife and I's new puppy"

Wow. My English teacher would have killed me. But then again, I guess grammar is considered more important when you're learning a foreign language.

Also, "it's only language"? It's the most important means of communication we have, damn it!

I hate how most people in Germany nowadays use a literal translation of "it makes sense" instead of the older, correct phrase. Yes, of course languages change and are influenced by other languages, but it still pisses me off. So ... I understand why it makes you angry.

[brightlotusmoon.livejournal.com]

Yes. It is the most important means of communication. But apparently not important enough for some people. And that's why I am angry. Because I have heard that excuse. "Oh, it's just language! Big deal!" And it pisses me the fuck off. Because language is beautiful, and amazing, and really really worth studying, and if people are just going to flip it off, then maybe they shouldn't be taken seriously.

Wow, I'm actually tearing up here. I'm more upset than I realized.

[greenteadragon.livejournal.com]

Not really irritating, just making self-conscious. (how's that for some grammar!?)

Nah, I know I make mistakes, and I prefer to write correctly, but sometimes I just mess up. Everyone has their thing they like to rant about, mine is other drivers.

[brightlotusmoon.livejournal.com]

*smiles* That was fine, actually.

I know everyone messes up, and this isn't directed at the "occasional offenders" but the people who do it deliberately over and over.

[chiyo-no-saru.livejournal.com]

Oofda. The whole "So-and-so and I/me" is one of those classic hypercorrection things--if I ever doubt which one to use, I just do what my mother taught me: take out the first part (the "so-and-so and") and see which one is right. Never fails. Or, I could just remember the whole object=me, subject=I bit.

I'm a massive grammar nerd--and proud of it--one time, I was explaining to my boyfriend how I'd never cheat on him (he's got a lot of past fears about that, so this was standard reassurance rather than defense on my part) and I joked that since I was using the subjunctive, it was even more obvious how I'd never do it, since that showed an unreal condition. He didn't get it--I love him deeply and passionately, but he got severely shafted by the education system because of his LD; they assumed that since his dyslexia is so severe, he's dumb and thus didn't need to know that sort of thing.

I don't mind so much when people misuse grammar in speech as I do in writing--but I think everyone should at least know the "correct" form.

It is hard for me, though, when in my Italian 101 class my TA is having to explain what nouns are. Maybe it's just because I went to a small Catholic school and have an editor for a mother, but grammar just seems... necessary.

[chiyo-no-saru.livejournal.com]

Also, just another thought--sorry for the novel I appear to be writing!--but I think speech errors are more permissible since it's not as if you can go back and revise what you say, and it's far, far more spontaneous; not to say that I don't agree with you, that is.

Also, there's the whole bit about how you can start off saying one thing, and then switch midway, rendering your earlier grammar incorrect.

But, yes. I really wish more people knew correct grammar--because at least then you know the rules when you break them.

[brightlotusmoon.livejournal.com]

That's what I wish, too. That's what I'm worried about; that people don't even know the correct forms anymore.

[brightlotusmoon.livejournal.com]

My husband and father are severely dyslexic and got a bit shafted by the education system as well, and I feel bad about that. I tend to feel self-conscious when I do these rants because some people do have LDs and really may not understand -- but I bet not every single person who does it online is actually dyslexic.

[chiyo-no-saru.livejournal.com]

Exactly. When I'm talking to my boyfriend on IM, which is often as he's not comfortable with phones (and hey, free!), he asks me to correct his spelling--and it took me so, so long to get over feeling bad about it. I know he asked me to, but I've had it so drilled into me not to correct people because it's impolite--and with him, I know he really is spelling things as best he can. And, interestingly, it's really given me a new insight into English and its phonetics--I've gotten very, very good at understanding what he means, even if it'd be unintelligible to other people..

I hate it, though, when people insinuate that just because he can't read well/spell well, he's stupid. *sigh*

I don't know if you read LJSecret, but I saw one that made me absolutely furious--I don't remember the image, but the secret was pretty much that this girl was going to dump her boyfriend because she found out he as dyslexic. It was ridiculous.

[brightlotusmoon.livejournal.com]

I've gotten very good at "interpreting" my husband's misspellings, because he spells phonetically -- it's fairly easy to figure things out. And occassionally he will ask me to correct him. I still feel bad, because yes, it makes anyone self-conscious to be told "You're doing it wrong." I wrote two drafts of this post before decided to say, screw it, people will either understand and agree, or they won't. I'm a grammar nerd. I'm a proud grammar nerd!

Dump him for being dyslexic?! Fuck, that's hideous! How immature can a person be?

[fionavere.livejournal.com]

Noooooooo! Don't stop doing posts about it just because of how a few other people may feel. This is your journal, you post about whatever is important to you. There will always be people who care less than you do. You just have to learn to let it sort of roll off of you, but you certainly should not stop caring just because other people don't.

I understand your frustration. When I was in school planning to major in English, I felt as if I was majoring in a dying language. I think I oftentimes felt like what was the point in my learning how to properly use this language if no one else even recognizes it when it's being used the way it was meant to be? We live in a country where ebonics, leet speak, and LOLcat are considered perfectly appropriate means of communication. (Just to clarify, I enjoy LOLcat as much as the next person, but sometimes it just gets old, and in very many situations it just sounds dumb.) It's no wonder no one remembers how to use English anymore!

There's this girl on my friend's list who consistently says "should of", "could of", etc. (And by "consistently" I mean every goddamn time, as in, she thinks her use of it is correct.) I have pointed this out to her, how and why it is wrong, and how to correct the problem. I have done so more than once, and she still does it. What pisses me off the most about that is that she has a college degree. How are we sending college graduates out the door in this country who do not know how to communicate in their chosen language? I don't think you should be handed a degree until you show at least a basic level of proficiency in the English language. You don't have to be particularly flowery about it. You don't necessarily have to know how to pack the maximum amount of meaning and beauty into your choice of words; (unless of course you want to) but everyone, no matter what their chosen field of study, should at least know by college graduation that "should of" is incorrect, and never, ever will be. Another one that's been getting on my nerves lately is "hence why", mostly because I think the people who perpetrate this particular crime against language think that they are sounding intelligent with their use of a fancy word like "hence".

Anyway, my point is that I can sympathize. I don't think I've ever been frustrated to tears over it, but I don't look down on you for being that sensitive to it. I know all it would take would be the right set of circumstances to make me want to cry over it. For me the frustration is more about the fact that many people who make these mistakes have completed higher levels of education than I have, therefore society values their intellect above mine because they have a piece of paper. They are somehow more valuable in the workforce, more qualified for jobs, yet they are not even fluent in their own native tongue!!! Ok, see, yeah, that one gets me similarly fired up.

*Disclaimer: I know I suck at punctuation, but I try with all my might to use it properly! I would actually LOVE to take a grammar refresher course, if for nothing else then to correct my misuse of punctuation.

[brightlotusmoon.livejournal.com]

Word.
Pun intended.

And that third paragraph is, as they say, full of win, and I love it, and thank you.

I don't think you should be handed a degree until you show at least a basic level of proficiency in the English language.
Oh, gods, if only.

[scyllacat.livejournal.com]

People don't understand the difference between subject and object, so they do not know when to use "I," rather than "me." They got corrected for saying "Jimmy and me" as the subject, but they don't know there are different uses for different occasions. *sigh*

[brightlotusmoon.livejournal.com]

Yes. And that's normally what is taught very early on in school. I just want to know what happens once people get out of school? Do all their memories of those lessons disappear?

"Jimmy and me went to the store" is wrong. But "Jimmy and I went to the store" is right. Unfortunately, because people have gotten the idea that "I" anywhere is better than "me" they've started using "I" everywhere.

[ms-babygirl.livejournal.com]

Have you seen that nutrisystem commercial? The girl on it says "it worked so good that I'd tell all my friends". Worked so GOOD?!?! I cannot stand that! It's WELL!!!!!

Haha. I understand.

[brightlotusmoon.livejournal.com]

Aaand that's why I roll my eyes at commercials like that -- dude, if you're going to elicit "testimonials" from "real people" about the product, at least edit the scripts. Oh, wait...

[redarmy-pariah.livejournal.com]

ugh...just reading "my wife and I's new puppy" made me wanna slap someone. speaking of slapping someone, today i wanted to slap myself upside the head for saying "it was already tooken" when someone asked me to take something somewhere. i stopped and said "i meant it was already taken." the person i was talking to argued that "tooken" was the correct way to say it.

>__

[brightlotusmoon.livejournal.com]

They didn't. Holy shit. I wanna cry now.

[redarmy-pariah.livejournal.com]

even worse was just today when someone said "i thought my baby done had to go to the doctor today. but Chris [the husband] done did it for me. he done took her earlier." my head wanted to explode, lol. not to mention all the misspellings in our manager's log book we have to write in after our shift. Robbie (another grammar/spelling geek) and i always correct others' spelling/grammar in the book. seriously, how can a 50-year-old misspell "chair," spelling it "chare." sorry, i'm just nitpicky about grammar and spelling, haha.

[poelaramont.livejournal.com]

Actually, I like to see someone else who cares about grammar. It may not be worth crying and yelling about, but it's still important, especially as a writer.

You should write a short story involving grammar somehow, since it's such a passion.

[brightlotusmoon.livejournal.com]

Actually, let's both do that. I could use a break from novel writing.

[poelaramont.livejournal.com]

I'll take that as a challenge. It will give me something to bainstorm on my walks to work, at least.

Already, I'm imagining aliens.

[sidheblessed.livejournal.com]

No more getting frustrated because people seem to have forgotten so many grammar lessons from first and second grade.

The thing is, a lot of people WEREN'T taught grammar then. That or they were taught the incorrect "Bob and I" and that "Bob and me" was poor grammar. Don't blame the people who were incorrectly taught, blame their educators.